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Unable to login to host, since updating viewer & host (Access denied)

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jasoncollege24, User (Posts: 7)

Jan 17, 2019 12:18:46 pm EST

Hi Conrad. Thanks for getting back to me.

To answer all of your replies to me...

After upodating everything, except the host on the client machine, I was able to login to the host machine via the client's viewer just once. Leaving it over night returned to the access denied errors, so I did manage to log into the host, but I'm still being told it's out of date.

Second bit. i installed both modules on the client, because on rare occassions, I do allow a friend to view my client PC (View only), which is also my primary PC. The remote (host) computer does not have the viewer installed at all. it only has the server, and the host installed. here's the install setup again, because I thnk you misunderstood.

Host machine has host, and server only (this is a file server, with no mouse, or keyboard attached)

Client machine has viewer, and host only. viewer is primarily used, and host is used VERY RARELY, and I have reasons for it being there.

I have a virtual machine on the client machine that has only the host software installed. This version is out of date, and is waiting for a resolution to this problem.

As for the complete uninstall/reinstall idea, I don't need to worry about registry entries. I will uninstall it using a program that removes all files, and registry entries left behind by uninstalled apps.

The reinstall is aboutto happen in the next few minutes, so please expectr an update on this within the next hour.

@Ashley, Did you check (or have someone on location check) Programs and Features in Control panel to be 100% certain that the host software was actually removed during update? It would show up there as "Remote Utilities - Host" if it's still there. Seems like a stupid question, but you'd be surprised how often the answer would be that it shows up there. (various apps btw)

jasoncollege24, User (Posts: 7)

Jan 17, 2019 1:33:28 pm EST

UPDATE:

I'm going to name all of these machines from here on to make it easier.

From here on, "Server" will be used to refer to the host machine (the one with no keyboard or mouse)
From here on, "Client" will be used to refer to the client machine (Primary PC used to remotely control Server)
From here on, "VM" will be used to refer to the virtual machine, who's host software has currently never been updated.

Client
Logged out of the Server's Remote Utilities server software
deleted all cloud connections that were there from logging into the Server
deleted all non-cloud connections, except the one for the Server, leaving literally only 1 connection listed in the viewer.

Note: The cloud copy of the Server connection claimed the host software was still out of date. The non-cloud copy (the one I didn't delete) doesn't claim it to be out of date, (this was the one that successfully logged in), but still received an access denied error after an over night sit)

Server:
Uninstalled Remote Utilities Host, and Server (Oddly enough, even removal of the registry entries did NOT remove the password, and RUT server settings. This needs to be rectified in your uninstaller!)
Restarted the Server, and logged back into Windows 10
Downloaded the latest version of the Remote Utilities Host MSI installer, and installed the host software, forcing a password change, and setting it to the password I had (in case it was changed)
Logged in, and took control via Client's viewer successfully
Restarted the server remotely, and logged back into Windows 10
Logged into Server via Client's viewer successfully, and took control.

Note: All uninstalls were done with Advanced Uninstaller Pro, which removes all leftover files, and registry entries after a program is uninstalled.

To summarize,

Using "Simple update" from the updated viewer, or updating by downloading the MSI, and running install BREAKS older versions of the host at this point. My only solution was a complete uninstall, and reinstall of the latest host software.

I'm going to have to do exactly the same on the VM, just to be 100% certain that I do not encounter this error again.

Unfortunately, this massive screw up of your installer's update process means that anyone using this software has to be ON LOCATION in order to resolve this issue, and properly update to the latest version.

I'm now labeling this as being a problem on your end, and not a problem caused by the end user, or their computers. Simply put, these broken updates are not our fault, or the fault of our computers, or the fault of Windows 10. They are the fault of your developers.

Please stop blaming us, and our computers.

Ashley Griffin, User (Posts: 61)

Jan 17, 2019 3:10:26 pm EST

To confirm jasoncollege24, although my issues appear slightly different the basis are, ive had to manually re-install the host again, after trying to remote update from the past already working install.  Its either almost completed the install then failed (removed the host, then installed the viewer ON A SERVER for no reason at all), or has broken totally with no connection.

In all cases ive had to console in (either standing in front of, or using Windows remote desktop, or VMWare vSphere) to gain access to the console of the machine running the host to remove / reinstall / restart something, i believe i had 1 upgrade, but even that needed a restart (it was on the same LAN as the local RU server).

I have to drive out to visit a remote PC (tonight) before i do some server migrations as its gone offline, about 2-2.5 hour round trip that should not be needed.  This one i bet has the viewer installed instead of the host.... will update once i find out.

Conrad Sallian, Support (Posts: 2371)

Jan 17, 2019 3:16:58 pm EST

Hello Ashley,

I see you are trying to blame windows for the failed "installs" needing restarts, although i expected this, heres the thing no one of your other updates went this badley, all systems were up to date. Please advise.

Sorry, I am not trying to blame anything or anyone. We are just trying to find the root cause in each specific case. Unfortunately, we cannot reproduce the issue in our testing laboratory which means that there is either an external factor or (if it's still internal) it only manifests itself in certain circumstances.

Of external factors there are not too many,  mostly either antivirus software or issues with the service starting, or issues with the work of msiexec itself (e.g. missing msi cache because of the use of various "system cleaner" software). Here is one example - the notorious "Service has been marked for deletion" error https://stackoverflow.com/questions/20561990/how-to-solve-the-specified-service-has-been-marked-for-deletion-error

In order to help we must examine each support case and find the exact reason why re-installing (updating) Remote Utilities doesn't work on that specific machine. Note, that as I mentioned earlier in this thread the "Simple update' itself has nothing to do with this. Once the file is downloaded from the Amazon server (if it isn't your Host log will have an error line about it) then the installation process is run in the same way as if you ran it using the vanilla Host with "msiexec /i <file_path> /qn" command, no difference.

How do you explain a server that was running the HOST, then had this removed and the viewer installed (i manually logged in to the server and found it, the install date was the date i did the upgrade, so why did the "upgrade" remove the host then install the viewer?)

Running a Simple update on a remote Host cannot install the Viewer. This is something most unusual. There is a single link (source link) for downloading the Host package during simple update. If Simple update installed Viewer instead of Host this forum would be flooded with complaints and support requests. Version 6.10 has been around for almost three weeks now and there are thousands of updates already.

I have at least 2 servers (and i believe i will find another later today) that had the HOST removed and viewer installed, i have no idea why the "upgrade" would have done this. It results in "OFFLINE" in the viewer software (as it removed the host so does go offline)

However on removing the viewer then installing the HOST.MSI, i have to then manually restart the remote utilities service otherwise it gets stuck on "logging in".....

Would it be possible to schedule a remote session where you would run a simple update and reproduce the issue?

Ashley Griffin, User (Posts: 61)

Jan 17, 2019 3:25:56 pm EST

Hi Conrad

Although i would like to re-produce this issue, there are a number of issues trying to do this:

- Everything RU is installed on is LIVE and at least an hours drive, if i play and it breaks there are some large bills and travel time involved (and client meetings asked why i have to drive to there site).
- Clearly what ever happened was connected to the "old" install (that was working), however since then i have upgraded the RU local server and RU local viewer, it might have been the new version had the new viewer but an old server (if that has anything to do with it).

I upgraded the viewer then started upgrading the clients (via the MSI method), however the server was still old (2.6?) so that might have done it, once i saw things were not coming back online, i checked the server to see you had upgraded that, so i then did an RU server upgrade as well, then set a plan to try and fix all the failed updates.

We spent about 8-10 hours, mostly due to slow internet and methods of having to gain access to the PCs they were running it.

If there is a log file then the PC i will see in about 4 hours i bet has the viewer installed, so if you want me to track down any install log i might be able to do that.  However it has to be working today as i have a huge server migration to do over the weekend from that PC on the clients LAN.  So once i get there it will be fixed.

Conrad Sallian, Support (Posts: 2371)

Jan 17, 2019 3:43:07 pm EST

Hello Jason,

Thank you for the details.

After upodating everything, except the host on the client machine, I was able to login to the host machine via the client's viewer just once. Leaving it over night returned to the access denied errors, so I did manage to log into the host, but I'm still being told it's out of date.

If you managed to access the Host from the Viewer and never changed anything in the authorization system in the Host settings ever since, it cannot all of a sudden start showing "Access denied". Access denied here means that you cannot authorize on remote Host, not issues with connectivity (which would explain why you can connect at some time and cannot at a different time).

Please, double check your Host authorization settings (Settings for Host -> Authorization) and make sure that you enter the correct password. Also, make sure that the connection mode you use is allowed on the Host side (in the Modes section/tab).

If all else fails let me know and we can have a remote session (connect to your Viewer PC) to see how exactly you log in to a remote PC or launch a connection mode.

Using "Simple update" from the updated viewer, or updating by downloading the MSI, and running install BREAKS older versions of the host at this point. My only solution was a complete uninstall, and reinstall of the latest host software.

We have one idea that we will try implementing in the very next RU update (6.10.4.0).  In a nutshell, we will see if we can gain complete control over the update process instead of delegating it to msiexec, which seems not to be very reliable. In theory this solution might help eliminate the update issues at least those not caused by antivirus software activity. However, this fix won't start working immediately, meaning that it will work for updating Hosts 6.10.4.0 and higher, and not the earlier Hosts for which the current update mechanism will still be used.

Again, the problem is not with "Simple update" per se. The problem is rather that the uninstall-install process isn't properly performed in certain circumstances my msiexec.

Conrad Sallian, Support (Posts: 2371)

Jan 17, 2019 4:26:56 pm EST

Hi Ashley,

If there is a log file then the PC i will see in about 4 hours i bet has the viewer installed, so if you want me to track down any install log i might be able to do that. However it has to be working today as i have a huge server migration to do over the weekend from that PC on the clients LAN. So once i get there it will be fixed.

We may need the logs and files listed in this article https://www.remoteutilities.com/support/kb/host-service-won-t-start/ . Note, however, that it's still very strange to hear that Viewer was installed instead of Host.

Regarding the server update - yes, it is recommended to update the server as well.

jasoncollege24, User (Posts: 7)

Jan 17, 2019 6:20:52 pm EST

Conrad Sallian wrote:

If you managed to access the Host from the Viewer and never changed anything in the authorization system in the Host settings ever since, it cannot all of a sudden start showing "Access denied". Access denied here means that you cannot authorize on remote Host, not issues with connectivity (which would explain why you can connect at some time and cannot at a different time).

Please, double check your Host authorization settings (Settings for Host -> Authorization) and make sure that you enter the correct password. Also, make sure that the connection mode you use is allowed on the Host side (in the Modes section/tab).

Never once did I blame the connection. Please don't put words in my mouth. I did check the host authorization, and no settings were ever changed between the successful login, and the subsequent access denied errors. In fact, those authorization settings are now exactly the same as they were during the access denied errors. I can login fine after doing the complete uninstall/reinstall. Regardless of what you're telling me, this actually DID happen! Internet ID is disabled on the host, and a direct connection is used, with a password I won't use on the internet.

I was able to logon just once after the update completed. The very next day, I tried to logon exactly the same way (NOTHING AT ALL WAS CHANGED), and got "Access denied". You say it cannot all of a sudden show "Access denied" errors, but you're wrong, because that's exactly what it did, and the only fix was a complete removal, and fresh install.

If all else fails let me know and we can have a remote session (connect to your Viewer PC) to see how exactly you log in to a remote PC or launch a connection mode.

No offense, but... absolutely not. I don't allow anyone to remote view, or access any of my systems, unless I know, and trust them. If you want to see how I logon to the host, I can create a short YouTube video that will show you how I logon, and use the Host with the viewer.

Again, the problem is not with "Simple update" per se. The problem is rather that the uninstall-install process isn't properly performed in certain circumstances my msiexec.

I tried to reproduce this on the VM, and that update process from 6.8 went off without any problems, so unfortunately, I cannot actually show you, but I will create a short youtube vid that will show you how I connect.

EDIT: Here is the video I promised that shows my settings, and how I login to the server from the client.
Remote Utilities - Host Authorization settings
Edited:jasoncollege24 - Jan 17, 2019 7:14:42 pm EST

Ashley Griffin, User (Posts: 61)

Jan 17, 2019 7:25:00 pm EST

Hi Conrad

Unfortunately by the time you wrote that message i was on the way to the client to repair the desktop, it had indeed had VIEWER installed and not HOST, it now has a new host installed and is in use migrating servers.

Conrad Sallian, Support (Posts: 2371)

Jan 18, 2019 2:19:20 am EST

Hello Ashley,

Unfortunately by the time you wrote that message i was on the way to the client to repair the desktop, it had indeed had VIEWER installed and not HOST, it now has a new host installed and is in use migrating servers.

Still I can't see even the slightest possibility of Host downloaded the Viewer installer instead of, well, Host when you initiate simple update. We serve the same Host file from our site to all customers (it is the Host that contacts the update server). How come that one single Host downloads a different file for one customer if the download link is hardcoded into the program? Besides, we haven't received other similar complaints - I mean installing Viewer instead of Host when Simple update is involved.

This can only be possible if you used Remote Install tool for updating a fed a different installer into the Remote Install window. I cannot see other explanations. But you only mentioned Simple Update that's why it's strange.
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